44 Responses

  1. Allen Sentance Fisherman November 10, 2011 at 08:12 |

    Alcohol is such a deemon & has destroyed far too many lives & families. I applaud you for this post & only wish more people could get to know the downfall of letting Alcohol rule you.
    Allen Sentance Fisherman recently posted..A Day’s Fishing With Frans Van Aardt And FamilyMy Profile

  2. Charlene May 19, 2013 at 21:23 |

    I’d like to know where your expertise in this comes from? Did you date or marry an alcoholic? Or were you the alcoholic? Sorry, but I refuse to believe that the victim is solely the alcoholic. People who love alcoholics sometimes very rarely even see them when they’re drunk (like a husband who goes out drinking all night and doesn’t come home until he’s sober the next day). So, that woman never even sees him when he’s in a “vulnerable” state. But she knows he was drunk, and that he’s saying it “won’t happen again.” And she loves him and wants him to be healthy. But he’s destroying himself and there’s nothing she can do, because you can’t control other people’s decisions like that. So, how are the people who love “functioning alcoholics” not victims?

  3. amanda June 14, 2013 at 04:04 |

    So you’re telling me that the only victim is the alcoholic themselves? What about the alcoholics children are they not victims? The worrying mother of an alcoholic son, father, sister, brother. Are there lives not affected in any way? You are completely delusional if you think the alcoholic is the only victim here. I could say with certainty you have not been affected by an alcoholic relative, sibling or partner in your life or you would not make such a CRAZY statement like that. My only guess is that you’re the recovering alcoholic who was oblivious to the pain it caused everyone
    around you who loved you. Grew up with an alcoholic father and now in
    love with one in the hopes that he can overcome this tragic life and family destroying illness. Experience it before making such statements because you have angered me to the core

  4. amanda June 14, 2013 at 08:39 |

    I am on the victims side here and never stated your father having alcoholism so that is irrelevant. My biggest issue with what you’re stating is to leave the alcoholic, to abandon a sick loved one when they need us the most. So when you compare them to cancer patient’s would you abandon them when they are on their sick bed fighting for their life? I should seriously hope not or THEY are dead. If my mother had done what you are advising others to do then my father would have been dead a long time ago or at the very least homeless which is the reason why so many are homeless today. If they don’t want to drink and are depressed and miserable and want to get help then who are you to say that abandonement is in their best interests?? Are you a doctor? I’m confused as to what qualifies you to say abandonement in EVERY case is the only way?? I would never TRY to help these victims but feel only compassion for them which is what you clearly lack for victims AND families.

  5. amanda June 14, 2013 at 09:09 |

    And also to set the record straight, my grandfather was in the British army and also fought in the second WW who was a very loving and honourable man who happened to be an alcoholic but I have the utmost love and respect for him like I respect ALL people. My grandfather fought for YOUR freedom as well so why don’t you take a leaf out of your own book and have a bit of respect please regardless of whether they are alcoholics or not.

  6. ABC June 15, 2013 at 19:39 |

    The alcoholic is the vicitm of their own choices and actions. They were not born alcoholics. There was a time during which they were drinking way too much, recognized that it was doing damage to their lives and their families and they kept on drinking until they became psychologically and physically addicted to alcohol. They drink because they want to avoid reality. If you are in a relationship with an alcoholic do yourself and everyone else a favor, leave. Their disease will chew you up and spit you out and they won’t care. The only thing an alcoholic cares about is his or her alcohol. If you stay you make yourself a victim of their disease. If you are experiencing the early stages of alcoholism get out while you can. What is coming is a living waking nightmare. Run.

  7. Jan June 15, 2013 at 22:34 |

    Can you have a relationship with a recovering alcholic. Iv met someone that had been sober 7 years he recently fell off wagon but managed to stop. Iv had previous experience of alcholism but with family members

  8. jackie August 14, 2013 at 13:55 |

    This post blew me away. I am a codie in Recovery. I was raised by and alkie, married and addict, my son is in recovery and just ended a relationship to and alkie/addict. I am the poster child for codependancy! I read somewhere that alcoholics dont have relationships, the take hostages, and the same holds true for codies. My BF by being an alkie had no control of his life, so I (the control freak) took over for him! I did everything for him, include bail him out of jail! I never let him take the fall, which hindered his recovery. My mother did it with my father for 45 years of marriage!! The truth hurts and I have made great progress in my own Recovery and hope that he can one day forgive me for the great disservice that i did him by hovering and trying to control his every move. I did it for love, or did I? Now I live and breath Alcoholism because I need to know why and how i got to where I am today. You must learn about the disease to really know how to respond. And as for the Alcoholic, you can ask, read, study, you can NEVER know what they go through. I have an idea, but im nowhere close! Hope I made some sense here! Good Luck!

  9. Heidi September 3, 2013 at 15:41 |

    Credentials are always important to me. How a person gains their information should always be taken into consideration, it is the difference between intelligence and ignorance. I would like to know your credentials, what courses you have taken in this subject, and how you derived that the only victim is the alcoholic, within a relationship. Are you a doctor? And of which field, psychiatrist, psychologist, MD, PhD, both? Thank you.

  10. kate October 1, 2013 at 20:26 |

    So, this is long. But I put a lot of thought into it.

    I have been attending AA meetings for the last couple of months (great program) and quite honestly, all the people I know vaguely well that have been honest about their issues would have to place themselves in the ‘nutters who drink’ category you kindly describe. That is, they drink excessively due to existing psychological problems and stressors or emotional immaturity. I am sympathetic to the compulsion alcohol can create for such people, many of whom are pleasant, personable, seem quite smart, hard working and have been very supportive. The majority of alcoholics do not fit the stereotypical alcoholic description save some near rock bottom.

    You say “there are many people who have other problems and who drink and who are not alcoholics. They are nutters who drink and who become violent in drink.” Way to be extremely ignorant and prejudiced regarding mental health issues. The majority of the mentally ill who also drink excessively are simply not that inclined to be violent. You also disown the “park bench drunk” in an article online as actually not an alcoholic. Sweeping generalisation, why not?

    How can you not wonder why AA never seek to sort the ‘real’ alkies from the ‘nutters’. Hint: there is no distinction. Save that made by a defensive and delusional mind, who fears association with certain stereotypes. Harsh thing to say but you have said harsher (and always inaccurate) things in your replies.
    It has to be pointed out that “nutter” people do not choose to have mental problems any more than (perhaps less than) you choose to be an “alcoholic”, and their actions are similarly compulsively dictated by a psychological issue. Yet you use a mythology of specific powerlessness to place only alcoholics conveniently beyond judgement. This is incoherent – you should either judge both derogatively or seek to judge neither.

    “When drinking the alcoholic is not in control of his own life.” Well.. you could say that. He certainly genuinely lacks the capability to make better choices. “Therefore everyone else around him is in control of his life.” What?! This is clearly nonsense, and merely a shameless excuse to blame other people.

    “An alcoholic has no choice but to keep on drinking once he has that first drink of alcohol.” Of course the ‘alcoholic’ sense of compulsion is too forceful to be overcome by definition, but ultimately the alcoholic can learn to choose not to take the first drink, as AA supports them to do.

    I do agree with you that people who qualify as ‘enablers’ often are taking advantage of the alcoholic to fulfill their own psychological needs (assuming they are not just ignorant of the unhelpfulness of their actions). However they are frequently confronted by the alcoholic’s misdemeanors and classic lack of genuine concern for others beyond their egotistical pretensions. Exhibit A: see a mirror. I believe that in al-anon family sessions some people tend to describe themselves as the “victim of an alcoholic”, as at the very least, the issues go both ways. But I expect you would accuse them of “hate” and of twisting things to suit their own needs, when they merely try to stand up for the people who suffer indirectly from people like us and alcohol. You haven’t learned a single valuable thing from AA.

    Again if the bad choices of a sober family member are dictated by psychological issues such as co-dependency, it makes sense only to label them with the same diminished level of culpability as you do an alcoholic, if that is how you see it.

    I don’t know how you can make the sweeping generalisation that alcoholics are “intelligent and they do care for other people more then they care for themselves”, “usually a good worker and a good money earner”, and an “attractive catch” considering that they are a totally disparate group of people with alcoholism as their only common feature. You certainly aren’t intelligent enough to mask your unfounded pretensions. I am being harsh partly as you are so unjustifiably rude to many people who have posted here. Oh, FOR EXAMPLE:

    Amanda – “My only guess is that you’re the recovering alcoholic who was oblivious to the pain it caused everyone around you who loved you. Grew up with an alcoholic father and now in love with one in the hopes that he can overcome this tragic life and family destroying illness.” – Amanda is very clearly both correct, compassionate and referring to herself in the second sentence. Certainly and not accusing you of having an alcoholic father or of being in love with some alcoholic guy. All this ‘concern’ from you about her ‘anger’ and ‘delusions’. Bet you were just hoping no-one was reading too closely, or petty enough to point it out. Clown.

    “They drink because they want to avoid reality” – you disagreed with this. But this is the reality. This is the nature of the psychological hold it has on alcoholics. As you yourself observe, “it is a mental thing for [alcoholics] rather than physical” and “Alcohol is a delusive drug and it makes you see things how you want to see them and not how they really are” – you said. This IS the psychological appeal of alcohol to the dysfunctional mind, wake up.

    “b) ‘They were not born alcoholics‘
    Answer: We don’t know this to be fact and neither do you but it is known you can usually pick the alkie kids. They are the ones with the bright eyes.”

    So you’re saying that they really are. I thought you already said we were recognizable for our intelligence, caring, attractiveness and high income. I actually looked this ‘shiny eyes’ thing up, and the only article I found on it was written by… you. I have drawn some of the quotes I am using from it.

    In conclusion, you are making a very transparent attempt to sort the undesirables you do not want to be associated with from the ‘true’ alcoholics, which you describe in a bizzarely flattering light and absolve from all responsibility. You try to back this up a bit in the shiny eyes article by inventing a further distinction, claiming that one is psychologically addicted to alcohol and the other physically, where they are not merely incidentally using.

    Ironically, you are the one stereotyping the alcoholic as a violent loon sleeping on a park bench.

    Finally “An alcoholic is in fact someone who is allergic to alcohol and is not a perpetrator he is a victim. This allergy to alcohol causes him to have a personality change. ..the personality change causes him to become someone he doesn’t like”

    Speak for yourself. I’m lucky to generally be a nice drunk, although it makes me more impulsive and offensive when angry. And amid all your whinging and excuses, which I could accept, coupled with hypocritical snobbery towards others (which I can’t) YOU make me ashamed to be an alkie.

    I have virtually no doubt that you will sweep this whole post aside using the same delusory projection you have been exhibiting in virtually every reply.

    Predicting to be told I am “a nutter who drinks”, then you refuse to play. During the saved time created by this, I suggest you look up the word ‘transparent’.

  11. a.peterson October 26, 2013 at 13:14 |

    Your hurting people who are looking for clear answers on whether or not to stay in an alcoholic relationship.

  12. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 4, 2014 at 05:07 |

    This person, he she it cracks me up! This is typical alcoholic talk, one they teach I’m AA. They take those with the, “everything is about me

  13. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 4, 2014 at 05:20 |

    Since my reply was so conveniently cut off this is more for those seeking honest help.

    How to Quit Enabling Your Alcoholic

    We don’t realize that someone else’s addiction becomes our own addiction until we take the time to stand back and observe our own behaviors and responses to our loved ones.  Our life revolves around their addictive patterns.  They actually become our focus.  What they do and how they feel that very moment determines how we respond and what course of action we take for the day.  Are they having a good day or a bad day?  We go as far as adjusting our own plans to cater to the needs of our alcoholic.  We tend to them as though they were incapable of taking care of themselves.  We make sure they eat.  We make sure they “sleep” it off.  We cover up their irrational behavior so that they do not have to experience any consequences for their actions.

    What we are essentially doing is going behind the alcoholic with a broom and sweeping up any pieces that might fall off, so no one sees what is really going on.  We cover up the mess in hopes that the outcome will change, but it doesn’t.  The irrational behavior only continues and actually increases the more steps we take to cover them up.  What we are doing is not what we think we are doing.  We think that we are helping our loved ones.  We think we are taking care of them, but what we are doing is the exact opposite.  In fact we are enabling the alcoholic to continue to drink because they have no reason not to.  Everything they need to do we are doing for them, so why should they quit?

    If they lose their job, then we work harder to support them.  If they need gas money to get somewhere, we give it to them.  If they forget to pay a bill, then we do it for them.  We make sure that their daily comforts are all taken care of so that they are happy, so that maybe they won’t drink, but our rationale doesn’t work to our benefit.  They will continue to use us as a resource as long as we are willing to be one.  The truth is there is no end point.  The alcoholic is not thinking rational and although they may once in a while admit they appreciate your service to them, they do not realize that your service to them and direct attention to them maintaining their unhealthy lifestyle is only maintaining their sickness.

    If we truly do care about the alcoholic we support and want to see the best for them, we have to step back and let go of the reigns.  We have to allow them to think for themselves and make conscious decisions on their own behalf.  We have to allow them to hit bottom.  They will never hit bottom, if we are there to hold them from the ground.  Our alcoholics have made the choice to drink and they have to make the choice to quit.  And they will only seek help if their current lifestyle begins to fail them and they start to lose some of the comforts they love the most.

    As an enabler we make it easy for them to stay sick.  We take on the burden and take ownership of something that is not intended to be ours.


    Here are some quick tips to quit enabling your alcoholic and get support:

    1.  If they choose to drink, stop participating in the event.  If you know they plan on drinking then you can plan on not being around them.  Do something good for yourself instead.  Make an appoint to respect their decision to drink and respect your right to live.  You don’t have to be around them when they are drinking.  They will drink regardless of you being there, so you might as well stop babysitting and start living.

    2.  Stop financially supporting their sickness.  If they lose their cell phone service because they forget to pay their bill or if they don’t have gas money to get to the bar, stop handing over the cash.  You have your own responsibilities that you have to take care of and this includes your sanity.  You don’t have to defend what is yours or argue about money either.  Simply put you can just say that you have to take care of your own finances and you can no longer help.

    3.  Stop making excuses.  Alcoholism and excuses go hand in hand on both the alcoholic’s behalf and yours, so start recognizing when you are making an excuse for your alcoholic.  Stop feeling sorry for them and stop feeling sorry for their actions.  You need to separate their actions and choices from your own.  You didn’t create their alcoholism and you can’t control it either.

    4. Focus on yourself.  Focusing on yourself should not be confused with selfishness.  They are entirely two different characteristics.  Focusing on yourself means that you are taking action and responsibility for your own life and allowing others around you to do the same.  Selfishness means that you are unaware of others and only address your own concerns regardless of the impact.

    5.  Mean what you say and say what you mean.  Make this your mantra!  Repeat it daily until it actually sinks in and starts to make sense.  Don’t say you are not going to do something and then turn around and do it.  This only gives the alcoholic control over the situation because they know that you are not going to follow through and you are just saying you will.  Establish a positive plan of action and follow through by actually holding your ground or protecting your boundaries.  If you say you are not going to give them money, then follow up with the course of action and don’t give your alcoholic money.  If you say you are not going to be around them when they are drinking, then don’t be around them when they are drinking.  Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

  14. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 4, 2014 at 06:37 |

    Lmao again you dhow your ignorance, because one I never placed blame on you or your site, that is typical of Internet functioning, and two this is not mine nor am I seeking money, it was a place of much better advice, that I have no dealings with at all, and three my alkie is not in anyway a nutter. As a matter of fact had my comment went through you’d realize that my alkie has told me tome & time again that if it weren’t for me sticking around he’d have a lead been dead a long time ago. So stick that in your narcissistic whisky bottle and choke it down. You ignoramus! Learn basic education grammar before trying to convince others you are not as ignorant as you sound. As far as arguing back and forth with you, I will take your advice and leave you and obvious brainwashed alkie nutter, because I know your kind and it is not worth the time
    Nunya B Knowsbetter recently posted..The Courage to BelieveMy Profile

  15. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 4, 2014 at 06:46 |

    P.S. ass clown my typos are the product of bad vision, and why? Because I invest more in my alkie’s health and well being than my own. Do replying from a phone is difficult for me at times. Alkie nutters like you, yeah I’d advice people to run too! AA my alkie left that place because you are a product of what they like to produce. I call them the, “screaming me – me’s. ” which made my alkie desire a drink the minute they walked out the door. Move on from this ignorant blog families seeking help, and may whatever higher power you believe in bless you, your families and alkie with much needed peace.
    Nunya B Knowsbetter recently posted..The Courage to BelieveMy Profile

  16. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 4, 2014 at 06:52 |

    Here’s my source for that article that somehow didn’t attach. It wasn’t my comments or site at all lol but some sort of healing help for those who are loving and dealing. Also it says like you say, let them fall it’s the only way they just state it more intelligently and kindly without all the holier than though bull crap.

    Nunya B Knowsbetter recently posted..The Courage to BelieveMy Profile

  17. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 4, 2014 at 17:30 |

    You are madness. I have half a mind to call AA and ask them to review the filth you are spewing. I’d suggest you seek professional help because it is clear something is clearly lacking in your bent way of thinking. To think people like you are out there even remotely suggesting this line of thinking will help an alcoholic is scary, to say the least. My alcoholic is 12 year’s sober, and if you ask it was purely from family support and the grace of God that got him through. Your line of thinking would be what would drive any alcoholic to suicidal tendencies. I know, I’ve seen what your kind do to people, even those who have never had a drink. That being said, I refuse to sit here and argue with someone who clearly is not in their right frame of mind. I’d venture to say you have been abandoned. Hence, why you are so obsessive over these comments, and the only attention you get is negative attention, which is better than none at all they say. So go ahead and have your last bashing word. I will not be coming back to this madness, however, I will be writing some letters advising against this site, along with printing up you demented comments and making some phone calls, before alcohol related death statistics by suicide increase. Thanks for showing your ignorance to the world! And have a lonely lively day you freak. P.S. when you do finally come around, if that’s even possible, do know they make anti-psychotic meds for that issue you have 🙂
    Nunya B Knowsbetter recently posted..Anticipate FunMy Profile

  18. Nunya B Knowsbetter June 5, 2014 at 03:18 |

    Lmao location explains it all! Australia… where alcohol abuse, rape, domestic violence, & child abuse rank among the highest in the world. No wonder. This is proven fact people do your research. I know a forensics detective who worked there and the cases are endless. By the way Mr non credible source, it’s apparent you like to spew non factual information, because never touched a drink, nor a drug, nor needed med one. Your vileness is cause for alarm and probably why Australia is so sad statistically. This is not even a real AA site, and I’ll have you know in my country we know how to treat people. So don’t you sit there for one second and think you know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to my alcoholics sobriety. It was all me, family, and God. You heathen. You disgust me, and I’d venture to say, reading previous post/comments that I am not alone in this view. Learn how to spell before trying to convince people you know it all. Typical sociopath behavior you have. You are not worth my text nor anyone else’s who comes to this site. Sad sad little man, who has to create a site to pit everyone down to make himself feel big. I see I got you figured out because man do u out rile up easy. LMAO

  19. Sarah September 7, 2014 at 07:58 |

    You have blatantly told all of these hurt, heartbroken, and hopeless women that pretty much that WE (sober people) are the reason why the alcoholic/addict in our lives are the REASON why they drink! In one of your posts to another woman who’s BF relapsed after they united, you have the audacity to ask her what negativity she brought into HIS life in order for him to start drinking again? You are not in the business of helping people, man. You have no credentials and you know NOTHING about the ugly,draining,cheating and awful disease alcoholism is. It is absolutely a disease but there is no “allergy” that causes alcoholics to drink. One drink and they are screwed, for the rest of their lives. It’s like someone flipped a switch…yep! Pure bull shit. Alcoholics are all hurt people, for one reason or another, drink in order to cope with their lives. Mental illness is almost ALWAYS the underlying reason. Most of all alcoholics suffer depression/anxiety which has been left untreated. If it was an allergy to alcohol, you’re telling me that if they decide to quit, then ALL of the wasted brain tissue will just heal and the alkie will be good as new? It takes YEARS for alkies to rebuild their lives and all the damage they have caused to themselves and to others. You know nothing of what you speak about. You sound like you are in major denial yourself. Whether it’s your own issue or someone close to you. I hope that you find your clarity. However, take some kindness to these women who look to you for help. You have shit on every single one of them. I applaud these family members who suffer alongside the drunk. We are victims, just as they are. But we are victims of THEIR actions. And by God, we love this person and would skin ourselves alive in order to get them sober. Yes, I mentioned God. How dare you for shitting on the religion of these women that if it wasn’t for their God, they wouldn’t be as strong as they are in the darkest, scariest and most painful moments. I PRAY that you re-evaluate your information, your opinions and your awful behavior towards this disease and it’s sufferers.
    2 year E.R Registered Nurse
    4 year Registered Brain Trauma Nurse
    Swedish Medical Center

  20. money June 30, 2015 at 19:00 |

    I am an alcoholic and so is my boyfriend..we been together for 5yrs…and we are both in aa and in group…I completely stopped drinking and he is having a hard time quitting…we love each other and talk about marriage and having kids..I came upon this Web page cuz I was seeking an answer to how my alcoholic relationships actually work..and I get a whole bunch of mumble jumble..from what I got from all this..is that I should leave the man I love and care about so much..

  21. Don Dressel December 25, 2015 at 11:30 |

    I am in a relationship with a woman who is an alchoholic.
    She is very loving, sweet and giving
    She tells me she wants to quit but never does
    She has 3 daughters that are very angry when she drinks because of broken promises to quit and always want to run from her when she starts drinking
    I do not drink at all and said I will support her to quit
    Something tells me that this relationship will never work despite the fact that we do get along very well
    One thing is that it is a long distance relationship but I do go visit her quite a bit
    My other concern is we have only been seeing each other for 6 months
    Is there hope for us?

  22. linde faith February 27, 2016 at 17:19 |

    I have been dating an alcoholic and the relationship is way too bad. We fight about almost everything and he is always occupied. He doesn’t have time for me and he always broke, he had a good job but alcohol has taken over everything. A relationship with an alcoholic don’t survive

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