Can a Relationship with an Alcoholic Survive ?

Posted by knowledge is power on November 10, 2011
alcoholic

If you are asking can a relationship with an alcoholic survive the short answer is ‘no’ It is said that there are always exceptions to any rule however it is not advisable to get into a relationship when he or she is alcoholic drinking. Also during a time of getting sober. For an alcoholic, a relationship at this time spells disaster. That is because it is likely the two will have nothing in common. Nothing except possibly the alcohol, if they are both drinking. Often during a relationship like this he spends the time trying to prove that he has not made a mistake, when in fact he has.

Sometimes he may even get married and it lasts for a while. Chances are that it will end in divorce. A relationship for an alcoholic while drinking is never successful for any length of time.

Although his life is unmanageable due to alcohol he is usually a good worker and a good money earner. He has to be resourceful in this way, due to the way that he drinks. He needs lots of money. That earning capacity makes him an attractive catch to some woman.

Many women like the security of someone who is bringing in a good regular income. His drinking is overlooked or it could even be seen as an advantage by some women who like to take control in relationships.

They see that an alkie is easily manipulated when he is drinking. In most situations he is not seeing the situation as it really is so he is vulnerable to things going on around him.

A lot is said in the media about abusive alcoholic relationships. The partner is said to be enduring hardship of some kind or another. Sorry I do not buy this story at all. The reason I do not feel sorry for someone in a relationship with an alcoholic is this:

  • The alcoholic is the victim. He is the victim of alcohol and of any nutter who wants to get hold of him is usually for their own advantage.
  • When drinking the alcoholic is not in control of his own life. Therefor everyone else around him is in control of his life.
  •  An alcoholic who has got sober will say, that once they find out what is wrong with them, after going to AA, they then have to take a good look at the people around them and wonder what is wrong with them.
  • This is because they realize that, they (themselves) would not put up with anyone like themselves for 5 minutes, if they had not been affected by alcohol.

It is sometimes sensationalized in the media that the poor woman is victim in an, abusive alcoholic relationship. This does not makes sense. Simply because she has a choice, she can leave. She does not have to put up with any abuse. So who is really the victim in such a situation?

The kindest thing someone can do for a practicing alcoholic is to leave him. That is because propping him up will only keep him longer away from doing something positive about himself, before it is too late. Fact is he may think he is O.K. and not that bad, if someone is putting up with him or propping him up, as the saying goes.

At this point I would like to make something very clear. That is that there are many people who have other problems and who drink and who are not alcoholics. They are nutters who drink and who become violent in drink. Alcohol can affect nutters badly and can cause their problems, whatever they may be, to become worse for them. Drinking alcohol can causes them an indirect result of hurting themselves or others.

This type of person (the nutter who drinks) is the one who gives the poor old alkie a bad name. This is because a nutter who drinks and has adverse effects is regularly referred to as alcoholic by counselors and by the mainstream media when in fact they are not alcoholics at all.

A primary alcoholic is misunderstood due to many factors including these people who have other problems and who drink alcohol. An alcoholic is in fact someone who is allergic to alcohol and is not a perpetrator he is a victim. This allergy to alcohol causes him to have a personality change. Putting aside what anyone else may think of him, the personality change causes him to become someone he doesn’t like because he can not live up to his own expectations.

Commenting on this topic in encouraged and questions about the practicing alcoholic will be answered. Please understand though that a person who is not an alcoholic does not understand  properly, the problems of an alcoholic.

 

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24 Comments to Can a Relationship with an Alcoholic Survive ?

  • Alcohol is such a deemon & has destroyed far too many lives & families. I applaud you for this post & only wish more people could get to know the downfall of letting Alcohol rule you.
    Allen Sentance Fisherman recently posted..A Day’s Fishing With Frans Van Aardt And FamilyMy Profile

  • Very true Allen, far too many lives ruined.

    Alcohol advertising has done a good job at giving false illusions (delusions) about the effects of alcohol and what it does to the people who are allergic to it. The series of article on this subject hope to fill in the missing pieces of information on what is the truly meaning to be alcoholic.

    It simply means an allergy to alcohol where the allergy affects the brain and causes the person to never be the same again. To be in a relationship while going through this turmoil makes it harder to cope with the changes and it is advisable to get sober before making big relationship decisions for a future.

  • Charlene says:

    I’d like to know where your expertise in this comes from? Did you date or marry an alcoholic? Or were you the alcoholic? Sorry, but I refuse to believe that the victim is solely the alcoholic. People who love alcoholics sometimes very rarely even see them when they’re drunk (like a husband who goes out drinking all night and doesn’t come home until he’s sober the next day). So, that woman never even sees him when he’s in a “vulnerable” state. But she knows he was drunk, and that he’s saying it “won’t happen again.” And she loves him and wants him to be healthy. But he’s destroying himself and there’s nothing she can do, because you can’t control other people’s decisions like that. So, how are the people who love “functioning alcoholics” not victims?

  • Hi Charlene,
    When someone is speaking the truth it doesn’t matter how they know that truth. Please know it is only a sober alcoholic that can help another alcoholic to get sober. Sad but true.

    I say that the alcoholic is the victim because it is the truth. It is the truth that he or she has no choices in life, and that is due to the alcohol being in control of their lives. I can not speak for the people who are not alcoholics, that you speak for here. One thing I do know though is that they do have choices in life where the alcoholic does not.

    Alcoholics are usually good money earners and is usually why they attract all sorts of strange people in their lives, due to the situations alcohol puts them in. Alcoholics are nice people. It’s only the alcohol that makes them into people, they themselves do not like, never mind what others may think of them.

    If a wife or bed partner truly has the alcoholics best interest at heart then the kindest thing they can do for them is leave them. The strange people that attache themselves to alcoholics when they are drinking would not know them if they were to get sober. The alcoholic also would not be with the same people when drinking, if they were sober. A decision to leave a practicing alcoholic is the best decision for all concerned and especially the best decision for the practicing alcoholic.

    Unfortunately the type of person or people that you have indicated in your comment here, I can not identify with and so can not know what they are thinking – as you say you do. As I see it in my truth, is that you have not described the alcoholic at all. You have instead possibly described someone who has other problems, not alcohol, and who also likes to drink alcohol. Please know there is a big difference between the alcoholic and the nutter here who also drinks alcohol. Understand this if you can, if not for your own sake then try to understand it for the sake of the practicing alcoholic.

  • amanda says:

    So you’re telling me that the only victim is the alcoholic themselves? What about the alcoholics children are they not victims? The worrying mother of an alcoholic son, father, sister, brother. Are there lives not affected in any way? You are completely delusional if you think the alcoholic is the only victim here. I could say with certainty you have not been affected by an alcoholic relative, sibling or partner in your life or you would not make such a CRAZY statement like that. My only guess is that you’re the recovering alcoholic who was oblivious to the pain it caused everyone
    around you who loved you. Grew up with an alcoholic father and now in
    love with one in the hopes that he can overcome this tragic life and family destroying illness. Experience it before making such statements because you have angered me to the core

  • Hi Amanda,

    I am telling you that if the alcoholic was not the victim then all the people you have mentioned here would also not have a problem – and so therefor have no reason to be calling themselves victims of alcoholism.

    It’s like a cancer patient who’s going to die due to her illness with cancer. Do you say that because she has cancer that all her family also has cancer and do you also blame the family member who has been diagnosed with cancer for infecting her family with cancer and that they are suffering from cancer even thought they do not have cancer?

    This is effectively the argument you put forward here. Your argument is based on emotion and not logic. And in that emotion you are having the anger towards me or anger towards anyone who has an understanding of what it is that constitutes an alcoholic or what it is that happens to an alcoholic when they are, in fact, allergic to alcohol. You are the deluded and misguided one here not me, sorry to say that this is obvious.

    Are you also saying that an alcoholic has an ‘illness’ because he/she can’t drink alcohol? Instead of spruking your hate and anger and unfounded accusations towards me I suggest you take a look at yourself and your own motives for such emotion and anger – could you be a counselor who is making money from desperate alcoholics wanting to get sober? I hope not or they are dead. I see you certainly have nothing to offer them in the way of help.

    Your misguided information related here is one very big reason why the success rate is so low for alcoholics to survive AA or to get sober at all and instead they die. They die due to alcoholism but the relatives who you are calling victims of alcoholism do not die. Same as the situation with a cancer patient.

    They instead go on to find another person who they can blame for their problems.

    Just to get a fact straight on one of the delusive assumptions here you have made about me and my family. My father was not an alcoholic. He was a very loving and honourable man and who was also a hero from the 2WW. He fought for your freedom so have a bit of respect please.

  • amanda says:

    I am on the victims side here and never stated your father having alcoholism so that is irrelevant. My biggest issue with what you’re stating is to leave the alcoholic, to abandon a sick loved one when they need us the most. So when you compare them to cancer patient’s would you abandon them when they are on their sick bed fighting for their life? I should seriously hope not or THEY are dead. If my mother had done what you are advising others to do then my father would have been dead a long time ago or at the very least homeless which is the reason why so many are homeless today. If they don’t want to drink and are depressed and miserable and want to get help then who are you to say that abandonement is in their best interests?? Are you a doctor? I’m confused as to what qualifies you to say abandonement in EVERY case is the only way?? I would never TRY to help these victims but feel only compassion for them which is what you clearly lack for victims AND families.

  • Hi Amanda,

    I do find you offensive and very accusing when you say you know what it is that I am feeling. I was using the cancer patient analogy to give a clearer understanding on how your position of calling non alcoholics victims of alcoholism and how they do not relate to an alcoholic’s problem. You have instead twisted my example to suit yourself.

    I know you will not understand what I am saying simply because you are not an alcoholic. An alcoholic on the other hand does understand the logic in what I am saying. The logic is that you can not help an alcoholic, that is simply because you are not a sober alcoholic.

    This is where AA is the only known thing that has a track record of having any success rate with getting alcoholics sober. I do also realize that this is not your interest which you have stated and which further substantiates my stand with what I am saying about alcoholics getting away from the people who are calling themselves victims of the alcoholic and of his problem with drinking alcohol.

    It is obvious you do not understand the mental side of alcoholism and this is a very dangerous situation for the alcoholic to be in. I can in fact talk here till I’m blue in the face to you but you will still not understand the problem.

    Not even when you have a dead alkie on your hands, will you still not see that you have contributed to their not getting sober and so there for contributed to their death. When you see this happening before your eyes, that is where you see alkies dying – then you obviously do not have to be a doctor to see the results of what works and what does not – and you know what is the major cause of so many alcoholics dying before they can get sober and that is before they even reach the age of 30. They are washed up by then.

    Basically it is not normal for someone to get into a relationship when they are a practicing alcoholic. Who would have anything to do with them, for a start? Only someone who, for whatever reason, is in a more desperate situation then what the suffering alcoholic is in.

    Are you in a relationship with a practicing alcoholic? Why do you have so much negativity in your life – and why do you think an alcoholic is a homeless drunk? This is not what constitutes an alcoholic at all. You are very misguided. Try to curb that anger so that you may have a better chance to see things as to how they really are and not like how, how you are seeing the plight of an alcoholic in a way that suits you and your needs. Good Luck :)

  • amanda says:

    And also to set the record straight, my grandfather was in the British army and also fought in the second WW who was a very loving and honourable man who happened to be an alcoholic but I have the utmost love and respect for him like I respect ALL people. My grandfather fought for YOUR freedom as well so why don’t you take a leaf out of your own book and have a bit of respect please regardless of whether they are alcoholics or not.

  • Hi Amanda,

    Is that on his say-so or on yours that you say your grandfather was an alcoholic – If he didn’t identify as an alcoholic then who are you to say he was an alcoholic?

    If he did identify as an alcoholic then what did he do about it – did he go to AA? He fought for my freedom as you say so I have a right to know if you are unjustly calling him an alcoholic. Are you a doctor or something?

  • ABC says:

    The alcoholic is the vicitm of their own choices and actions. They were not born alcoholics. There was a time during which they were drinking way too much, recognized that it was doing damage to their lives and their families and they kept on drinking until they became psychologically and physically addicted to alcohol. They drink because they want to avoid reality. If you are in a relationship with an alcoholic do yourself and everyone else a favor, leave. Their disease will chew you up and spit you out and they won’t care. The only thing an alcoholic cares about is his or her alcohol. If you stay you make yourself a victim of their disease. If you are experiencing the early stages of alcoholism get out while you can. What is coming is a living waking nightmare. Run.

  • Jan says:

    Can you have a relationship with a recovering alcholic. Iv met someone that had been sober 7 years he recently fell off wagon but managed to stop. Iv had previous experience of alcholism but with family members

  • Hi ABC Karen,

    What you said here is so far from the truth and is a big reason why so many people die from alcoholism each year. Of course it is never stated on the death certificate that cause of death was a direct result of alcohol.

    You said:

    a) ‘The alcoholic is the victim of their own choices and actions
    Answer: This is totally untrue. An alcoholic has no choice but to keep on drinking once he has that first drink of alcohol. If he/she is allergic to alcohol (i.e. a primary alcoholic) then and it effects them mentally, flips their thinking and they are never the same person again. This happens from that very first drink – and from then on they drink because they have no choice. They are a victim of alcohol.

    b) ‘They were not born alcoholics
    Answer: We don’t know this to be fact and neither do you but it is known you can usually pick the alkie kids. They are the ones with the bright eyes.

    c)’… ‘recognized that it was doing damage to their lives and their families and they kept on drinking until they became psychologically and physically addicted‘ …
    Answer: This is not the description of an alcoholic. It is someone with other problems who also drinks alcohol. Alcoholics are nice intelligent people and they do care for other people more then what they care for themselves – they are their own worse enemy – and not a danger to others – alcohol turns them into people they themselves don’t like – never mind what anyone else may think of them

    d) ‘They drink because they want to avoid reality. If you are in a relationship with an alcoholic do yourself’
    Answer: I don’t know where you got this info from – probably from the very bias mainstream press who are funded by the liquor industry, I am guessing.

    Alcohol is a delusive drug and it makes you see things how you want to see them and not how they really are. Alcohol is the problem not the victim of alcohol, the alcoholic. Do the alcoholic a favour by leaving him because he has a better chance of living if he is on his own.

    I do thank you Karen for commenting but I do also hope that you try to learn what it is that constitutes a true alcoholic – so that you’re not just talking about some nutter who drinks alcohol – as you have described here.

  • Hi Jan,

    He is not a sober alcoholic so he will be very unstable in a relationship – so the short answer is no, it wouldn’t work.

    He’s had a bust after being sober for 7 years, as you said. This means that 7 years is gone. To stay sober again for another 7 years he would need to know what he did wrong so that it doesn’t happen again. Did he have that bust ‘(fall off the wagon)’ since being with you? What sent him negative enough to drink alcohol again after 7 years.

    This is very important to know and understand especially if he is an alcoholic and he’s not just a heavy drinker. If he is an alcoholic his drinks are numbered and the next may be his last. Alcohol kills alcoholics. It is not a physical thing for them it’s a mental thing. For him to drink again after 7 years means that he went mad. Was he attending AA meetings during that 7 years he stayed sober?

  • Hi Amanda,

    In reply to another untruth you have stated here, you said you, ‘ … never stated your father having alcoholism so that is irrelevant’

    Yet in your previous comment that I was replying to you stated that, ‘My only guess is that …. you…. Grew up with an alcoholic father and now in love with one in the hopes that he can overcome ….

    These are your words and it is a load of crap. You assumed my position, again to suit your own position and even though what you said has no foundation of truth, at all – and to which I addressed to assure you that there was no foundation to your untrue statement regarding my father being an alcoholic.

    Hope this clears up some things for you. :)

  • jackie says:

    This post blew me away. I am a codie in Recovery. I was raised by and alkie, married and addict, my son is in recovery and just ended a relationship to and alkie/addict. I am the poster child for codependancy! I read somewhere that alcoholics dont have relationships, the take hostages, and the same holds true for codies. My BF by being an alkie had no control of his life, so I (the control freak) took over for him! I did everything for him, include bail him out of jail! I never let him take the fall, which hindered his recovery. My mother did it with my father for 45 years of marriage!! The truth hurts and I have made great progress in my own Recovery and hope that he can one day forgive me for the great disservice that i did him by hovering and trying to control his every move. I did it for love, or did I? Now I live and breath Alcoholism because I need to know why and how i got to where I am today. You must learn about the disease to really know how to respond. And as for the Alcoholic, you can ask, read, study, you can NEVER know what they go through. I have an idea, but im nowhere close! Hope I made some sense here! Good Luck!

  • Hi Jackie,

    Your comment is appreciated thank you!

    May I ask why you say your BF, father and son are alcoholics? The problem is heavy drinkers are misunderstood for alcoholics due to wrong information put out by Dr’s counselors and social workers.

    I can understand you wanting to know a reason why normal people would get involved with alcoholics, heavy drinkers or unstable people who may have all kinds of other problems.

    Alkies do not relate to 12 step lingo, such as ‘recovery’ (who are they recovering from, themselves?) or do not relate to alcoholics ‘taking a hostage’ Alkies need common sense answers to problems and can not relate to blanket cliche such as this – for alcoholics, alcohol is their problem, nothing else and if they can get sober then they are happy little people and they are useful members in society.

    Problem is though they need sober people to help them get sober and there isn’t any around. Can you tell me please how you found this article? I do hope you also read the other articles in this series.

    Thank you again Jackie for the well wishes and your comment.

  • Heidi says:

    Credentials are always important to me. How a person gains their information should always be taken into consideration, it is the difference between intelligence and ignorance. I would like to know your credentials, what courses you have taken in this subject, and how you derived that the only victim is the alcoholic, within a relationship. Are you a doctor? And of which field, psychiatrist, psychologist, MD, PhD, both? Thank you.

  • Hi Heidi,

    Thanks for your interest. Before I begin to answer your many questions here I need you to answer a couple for me:

    1. Are you an alcoholic?
    2. Have you read the other posts on this blog or did you only read this one on relationships?

    Also I know ‘relationships’ is an online niche where lots of money can be made from this topic. What is your interest in the topic, please?

    Also Heidi please, could you give me the name of someone with credentials such as a doctor, psychiatrist or psychologist, MD, or both who has made claim to any success in getting alcoholics sober? That is in or out of AA. Success so that alcoholics may now be living a normal and productive life in society.

    On the other hand let me inform you that god free sobriety has been achieved by AA members who attend AA meetings on a regular basis, and by staying on the first step.

    Thanking you in advance on the information on academics achievements. The ones with academic credentials who can make claim to having successful results in getting alcoholics sober. I’m not expecting you to come up with anyone though. Besides Dr Sylvester Minogue in Australia who helped alcoholics in AA in the 1960′s and 70′s I personally do not know anyone else who can make such a claim.

  • kate says:

    So, this is long. But I put a lot of thought into it.

    -

    I have been attending AA meetings for the last couple of months (great program) and quite honestly, all the people I know vaguely well that have been honest about their issues would have to place themselves in the ‘nutters who drink’ category you kindly describe. That is, they drink excessively due to existing psychological problems and stressors or emotional immaturity. I am sympathetic to the compulsion alcohol can create for such people, many of whom are pleasant, personable, seem quite smart, hard working and have been very supportive. The majority of alcoholics do not fit the stereotypical alcoholic description save some near rock bottom.

    You say “there are many people who have other problems and who drink and who are not alcoholics. They are nutters who drink and who become violent in drink.” Way to be extremely ignorant and prejudiced regarding mental health issues. The majority of the mentally ill who also drink excessively are simply not that inclined to be violent. You also disown the “park bench drunk” in an article online as actually not an alcoholic. Sweeping generalisation, why not?

    How can you not wonder why AA never seek to sort the ‘real’ alkies from the ‘nutters’. Hint: there is no distinction. Save that made by a defensive and delusional mind, who fears association with certain stereotypes. Harsh thing to say but you have said harsher (and always inaccurate) things in your replies.
    It has to be pointed out that “nutter” people do not choose to have mental problems any more than (perhaps less than) you choose to be an “alcoholic”, and their actions are similarly compulsively dictated by a psychological issue. Yet you use a mythology of specific powerlessness to place only alcoholics conveniently beyond judgement. This is incoherent – you should either judge both derogatively or seek to judge neither.

    -

    “When drinking the alcoholic is not in control of his own life.” Well.. you could say that. He certainly genuinely lacks the capability to make better choices. “Therefore everyone else around him is in control of his life.” What?! This is clearly nonsense, and merely a shameless excuse to blame other people.

    “An alcoholic has no choice but to keep on drinking once he has that first drink of alcohol.” Of course the ‘alcoholic’ sense of compulsion is too forceful to be overcome by definition, but ultimately the alcoholic can learn to choose not to take the first drink, as AA supports them to do.

    I do agree with you that people who qualify as ‘enablers’ often are taking advantage of the alcoholic to fulfill their own psychological needs (assuming they are not just ignorant of the unhelpfulness of their actions). However they are frequently confronted by the alcoholic’s misdemeanors and classic lack of genuine concern for others beyond their egotistical pretensions. Exhibit A: see a mirror. I believe that in al-anon family sessions some people tend to describe themselves as the “victim of an alcoholic”, as at the very least, the issues go both ways. But I expect you would accuse them of “hate” and of twisting things to suit their own needs, when they merely try to stand up for the people who suffer indirectly from people like us and alcohol. You haven’t learned a single valuable thing from AA.

    Again if the bad choices of a sober family member are dictated by psychological issues such as co-dependency, it makes sense only to label them with the same diminished level of culpability as you do an alcoholic, if that is how you see it.

    -

    I don’t know how you can make the sweeping generalisation that alcoholics are “intelligent and they do care for other people more then they care for themselves”, “usually a good worker and a good money earner”, and an “attractive catch” considering that they are a totally disparate group of people with alcoholism as their only common feature. You certainly aren’t intelligent enough to mask your unfounded pretensions. I am being harsh partly as you are so unjustifiably rude to many people who have posted here. Oh, FOR EXAMPLE:

    Amanda – “My only guess is that you’re the recovering alcoholic who was oblivious to the pain it caused everyone around you who loved you. Grew up with an alcoholic father and now in love with one in the hopes that he can overcome this tragic life and family destroying illness.” – Amanda is very clearly both correct, compassionate and referring to herself in the second sentence. Certainly and not accusing you of having an alcoholic father or of being in love with some alcoholic guy. All this ‘concern’ from you about her ‘anger’ and ‘delusions’. Bet you were just hoping no-one was reading too closely, or petty enough to point it out. Clown.

    “They drink because they want to avoid reality” – you disagreed with this. But this is the reality. This is the nature of the psychological hold it has on alcoholics. As you yourself observe, “it is a mental thing for [alcoholics] rather than physical” and “Alcohol is a delusive drug and it makes you see things how you want to see them and not how they really are” – you said. This IS the psychological appeal of alcohol to the dysfunctional mind, wake up.

    “b) ‘They were not born alcoholics‘
    Answer: We don’t know this to be fact and neither do you but it is known you can usually pick the alkie kids. They are the ones with the bright eyes.”

    So you’re saying that they really are. I thought you already said we were recognizable for our intelligence, caring, attractiveness and high income. I actually looked this ‘shiny eyes’ thing up, and the only article I found on it was written by… you. I have drawn some of the quotes I am using from it.

    In conclusion, you are making a very transparent attempt to sort the undesirables you do not want to be associated with from the ‘true’ alcoholics, which you describe in a bizzarely flattering light and absolve from all responsibility. You try to back this up a bit in the shiny eyes article by inventing a further distinction, claiming that one is psychologically addicted to alcohol and the other physically, where they are not merely incidentally using.

    Ironically, you are the one stereotyping the alcoholic as a violent loon sleeping on a park bench.

    -

    Finally “An alcoholic is in fact someone who is allergic to alcohol and is not a perpetrator he is a victim. This allergy to alcohol causes him to have a personality change. ..the personality change causes him to become someone he doesn’t like”

    Speak for yourself. I’m lucky to generally be a nice drunk, although it makes me more impulsive and offensive when angry. And amid all your whinging and excuses, which I could accept, coupled with hypocritical snobbery towards others (which I can’t) YOU make me ashamed to be an alkie.

    I have virtually no doubt that you will sweep this whole post aside using the same delusory projection you have been exhibiting in virtually every reply.

    Predicting to be told I am “a nutter who drinks”, then you refuse to play. During the saved time created by this, I suggest you look up the word ‘transparent’.

  • Hi Kate,

    I can see you are an intelligent and possibly a caring person. Firstly, may I suggest that you rid yourself from anger and emotion so that we may have a reasonable conversation on the many points you raised on this article? May I also suggest that anger and nastiness clouds issues? I’m sure you would agree and it appears an emotional topic and so we need to be careful not to cloud issues.

    The terms we use in blog posts, are terms that appear to repulse you. They are terms OSM’s use in AA to help alkies in the process of getting sober. They are terms used by myself and by people who have done the distance and who have learned, how to survive AA. They have learned this from sober alcoholics before them.

    Survival is something you have apparently not learned and it is vital that you must learn to survive. That is if you are an alcoholic as you indicate. Term used,i.e., ‘nutters who drink’ and other terms that you are not familiar with. It is not for us to say what the nutters problems are, it is only for us to recognise that they are not like us. This is all we need to know to help to survive in AA, in this area of understanding, at an AA meeting. There are many areas of understanding.

    Also, we would like to answer your quires so that you may be clear on what is meant by terms used however the reasoning is not clear. Sorry, not at this stage. It appears you started with reasoning but emotion got in the way and reasoning was lost. What is the point that you want to make in the comment?

    Some terms used, I could not fathom out at all as to what you may mean, such as, Ironically, you are the one stereotyping the alcoholic as a violent loon sleeping on a park bench.. I have not heard this term used before in AA as to describe anything of significance and so is foreign to me.
    I need at least an explanation as to what is meant by the ironically… statement. We need to know meanings for the purpose of helping to give a clearer understanding of how AA works. And an answer that does not offend you as it appears easily offended.

    Also you quoted many answers to other comments given to people. It appears you are assuming that answers received by the comments are not satisfactory to the person commenting. I must believe that they are in fact happy otherwise they would have asked for further clarification.

    May I also suggest that if we are to continue and to try and converse on this topic that we must only deal with facts. Facts presented and not with assumptions?. I suggest this so that we both may be clear on intentions and clear on receiving correct information and answers. Is this agreeable to you?

    May I also suggest that if you are an alkie that you do a lot more meetings? This is so that you may prove your point to us by staying around in AA? It is obvious that you have not yet learned, how to survive AA. Simply because you have no information and have not done the distance.

    How long are you sober?
    ___________________________________
    You are correct, this statement along with others is incoherent,.. It has to be pointed out that “nutter” people do not choose to have mental problems any more than (perhaps less than) you choose to be an “alcoholic”, and their actions are similarly compulsively dictated by a psychological issue. Yet you use a mythology of specific powerlessness to place only alcoholics conveniently beyond judgement. This is incoherent – you should either judge both derogatively or seek to judge neither.

    We seek to judge neither, as you suggest… We are here to only give correct information to alcoholics on what it takes to survive AA and the information is only for alcoholics so that they may have a better chance to live and not to die from alcoholism. If someone who is not an alcoholic gets something from this information then that is a bonus but overall this information is not intended for non alcoholics.

  • Hi Amanda,

    In reply to: “….would you abandon them when they are on their sick bed fighting for their life…” It can only be assumed that if an alkie is on the sick bed with family around then it is obvious that the family can not help them and in fact must take responsibility for his predicament of being sick in bed and dieing. Partly responsible at least.

    If I was in that position – as a family member of a sick alcoholic on his death bed and if someone said to me that if he gets away from the family, i.e. out of the old environment, then he will live and not die – then the answer to your question is YES I would leave them – this is so THEY can live – and not instead surely die – and if he leaves the family then THEY (the family) does not have an alcoholism problem anymore either. Best solution all round wouldn’t you say?

  • a.peterson says:

    Your hurting people who are looking for clear answers on whether or not to stay in an alcoholic relationship.

  • Hi a.peterson

    If you say the article is not giving clear answers, and even though a question has not been asked, how then do you say the information in this article is hurting anyone – who is in a relationship? The information in this article is to benefit alcoholics wanting to get sober and is not meant to hurt them or anyone else.

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